Saturday 12 September 2009: So long and thanks for all the fish...
I have been totally overwhelmed by the response to yesterday's post. It has had 1255 views in less that 24 hours so the issues raised obviously touch a nerve for many of you. Thanks for the very many messages of support which have been received both publicly and privately. They highlight what I have enjoyed so much in this community and that there are many wonderful people here. I have learned so much from you.
A lot of you have asked me to stay but I do not feel that I can. All of the discussion and links can be seen in yesterday's blip and in sleepyduck's blip for today, as well as in comments on the blip preceding that. At major milestones it is customary to thank blipcentral but I hope you can forgive my omitting that on this occasion. Anyone who wishes to remain in contact with me or view my photos can find my email address and Flickr link in my profile.
It is a very sad day. Sleepyduck and I went for a walk, as is our custom on a Saturday. He did not even bring his camera. That has never happened since we joined blip and rarely in the almost four years we have been together.
I would like to leave you with an observation and a couple of thoughts. I noticed that there were few public messages of support from UK men among the comments that sleepyduck and I have received in the last two days. Why might that be? I suspect that it may be difficult for men to speak out and say that they did not find the images offensive when they see the criticisms levelled at sleepyduck. Indeed, it was hard for him to defend himself. He did not ask me to say anything or expect me to leave but I felt that it was important to do so.
Much of the discussion has centred around the ethics of taking shots of people without consent. Below is a list of a few of the greats in the history of photography whose iconic images would have been censored if this were applied to them.
Diane Arbus
Joseph McKenzie
Garry Winogrand
William Klein
Cartier Bresson
Weegee
Robert Frank
If you have a favourite photographer who takes candid shots where the subject has not consented then please write their name below.
Thanks again for all you have taught me and all the kindness and affection you have shown me.
Comments
So long and thanks for all the comments and the blips - it's been short but very sweet. I'll continue to look at both of your images on Flickr and I hope that, once the dust settles, we may see you both back again. In the meantime, look after each other and take care.
~ MrSmith
I can understand your reasons and I do think that this has been handled badly but I wish you didn't have to go! For what it's worth I love both your journals and also know what smashing people you are. See you on Flickr...and next weekend :)
~ Dazed
It's a sad day, I'm so sorry you feel you have to go but I can understand why you feel you have to....I'll be following you both on Flickr, you're not getting away THAT easily! Take care and stay strong!
~ meancoast
Again I came to this late and I can only offer you and the duck my full support retrospectively. I understand your decision - I LOATH censorship - have you considered a joint duck & imp blog - keep your images going every day??
I only wish you would reconsider - you WILL be missed - my best to you and the duck - 2 genuine honest and funny people.
~ dogenzenji
I think you should stay on principle; otherwise the censorship floodgates may open and "offensive" images would be pulled left, right and centre. Blip would change beyond recognition, and I'd hate to see such a wonderful thing implode. Unless an image is pornographic, racist or inciting real hatred, it should be the subject of a forum discussion if someone has a problem with it. At least then we could see what the general feeling is. Again, please don't go!
~ Annie
You have just let blipcentral win and that is very disappointing.
~ caffeine
Well, I'm in the "please don't go" camp. But I can understand your reasoning. This issue has been handled really badly (at least as far as I can see from here).
It does seem as though personal opinion has been turned into a big stick. And that's just wrong.
~ mobilevirgin
For my part I'll be really sorry to see you both go. You and SD are probably the most frequent commentators on blip and always with an encouraging word or two.
I can understand your reasons for walking away, however I believe blip will be somewhat the worst for your absence.
Like Mr. Smith I do hope you will both return sometime in the future and in the meantime I will follow you both on flickr.
Be safe and take care of each other.
~ TontoMcDuff
@caffeine I understand what you're saying but this is a place for my pleasure and relaxation rather than a campaigning ground. The last two days have taken a personal toll on both myself and sleepyduck as it has been very stressful. Thanks for all your comments and kindness. I hope we bump into each other soon.
~ impoftheyard
You will both be a loss to the blip community. It is so sad that you have had to end your blip journey in such a way. It's been a pleasure viewing your journal and I look forward to continue seeing your work on Flickr - I want to see more of your Lensbaby magic!! Take care x
~ lhr
Very, very sad. I agree with everything that Annie says. I can't believe that sleepyduck's completely inoffensive shot was censored and I can't believe that the blip people haven't seen sense and put it back. All this has made me feel very differently about what sort of community it is - clearly not a very democratic or fair one. I hope that you'll come back one day, but in the meantime I'll follow your photos on flickr. Thanks for all your comments on my blips.
~ chaiselongue
So long guys, I do think this is the wrong option and perhaps a more direct conversation with the guys at Blipcentral would have resulted in a different outcome, but it is your choice.
It's has been an absolute pleasure knowing you both and I'm certain our paths will cross again.
Take care.
~ Scobes
I've just noticed that sleepyduck's farewell blip has been removed from spotlight.
~ impoftheyard
Sorry to see you go imp - I've certainly enjoyed your blips since you've been here, and you've always been a regular commenter on mine. All the best to you and the duck, and I'll try to keep up with your photos on flickr. Hopefully we'll see the two of you back on blip one day.
~ monochrome
I agree with the sentiments expressed above. I only joined on impoftheyard's suggestion and think it a real shame that interesting material and people should be lost to blipfoto through the pettiness of one or two individuals. I needn't like everything blipped without thinking I need to get all Angry of Mayfair about it.It's called tolerance.
~ Orc2009
This is awful! I've been blip-lite the last few days and have missed all this. It's just so terribly sad to see two such popular blippers leave the community. I understand why you are doing it though, and wish you all the best. I'll keep checking with you both on flickr.
~ SooB
Even though I only blip occasionally now, I will still miss you
and sleepyduck on here. This is not the first time this has
happened though, last year cagedbird, a very popular blipper
left after problems with blip central, (in an email sent to me
at the time, she said that comments made by wingpig and
david77 had contributed to her making a decision to leave
blipfoto, wingpig has since stated that this happened some
months earlier) I believe she was also suspended for some
reason. Nevermind, take care and I'll see you both on flickr.
~ martrex
I dont want you to go, but you have made a decision, take care and pop by now and again with a blip or two xxx
~ traceyflowerpot
You will be missed but I will look forward to looking at your images on flicker. All the best to you both
~ queenie
I'm absolutely gutted that you are both leaving and feel quite emotional about it all.
I wish you were staying and so am disappointed and sad by the way this has been handled.
I will definitely keep up with all your lovely photographs on flickr! and see you on facebook - and hopefully in person too soon :O)
Much love, you will both be terribly missed xxxxxxxxxxxx
~ Cherryblossom
How achingly sad. Communities are such fragile things, and it sounds like this rift is irreparable, at least for now. I'm so sorry that SleepyDuck was made to feel unwelcome. I certainly understand his need to move away, and for your act of solidarity. Not being one to just turn away from things that don't feel right, I want to let you know that I will raise my concerns about what's happened with the powers that be. Maybe things can change. Maybe this rift can be mended. I hope so. This is such a loss...
And I would add Sally Mann to your list.
~ besideherself
Really, really very sad that you and Sleepduck have left. but I totally understand your viewpoint.
And just to say I did not find Sleepyduck's blip offensive in the slightest. I never have found any of his blips offensive. It is an interesting debate what is acceptable and not, and there is a fine line. In a community as large as blip there are bound to be different types of people with different morals and different senses of humour. But I never found SD to go beyond what I personally find comfortable.
If I was to name someone here as you've suggested it would be Diane Arbus. In fact last night when I saw it all kicking off that is exactly who I thought of. I do find her photography challenges me, challenges what is acceptable, but in the end I always think what she did was expose people's prejudice. That was the power of her photography.
Sorry to see you go. All the best to you both. And THANKS for your comments along the way.
~ rachelbruce
I think I'll say the same thing that I have said to SD...and sincerely hope you reconsider...
on the other hand, I really respect your decision to leave if SD leaves...I will lose some regular comments on my journal and also some crazy lensbaby shots...take care :)
~ Adda
I'm relatively new around here so I'm not that familiar with the various people involved in all of this. I have however now taken time to follow the various threads since this whole thing kicked off and have reached my own conclusions.
I firmly believe that sleepyduck is not the villain here. It appears that the majority of the community who have commented share that view.
Names have been named. It also appears that this may not be the first time this sort of thing has happened. In my view, for the good of the community, it is not the duck and imp that should be going but others.
I will be considering my own position.
A message to blip central:
Your continuing silence on this is worrying. I would go as far as to say it is potentially damaging to the long term future of your excellent site. There is clearly a ground swell of opinion around this and possibly even questions over your integrity and even-handedness in terms of moderation and how you handle 'reports'.
I would suggest this needs to addressed.
~ northseatrawler
It's all been said already. I'll miss your blips - write ups and images. I'll particularly miss your lensbaby shots as you immerse yourself with it and try to wear it out ;-)
I'll miss your comments. Always insightful, always generous.
And I think that's what I'll miss most of all from both you, your generosity.
Kia kaha (remember, be strong)
~ hpx
Outraged and speechless. Catch you later:(
~ Sollergirl
As I wrote on Sleepyducks journal I do hope when you've had a think it over both of you's change your mind.
~ steveo
I don't know what to say, it's all been said already, but it's all very sad and has made me think differently about Blip. It's not quite such a lovely community as I thought it was. I understand your reasons and think that maybe I would have done the same. Good luck to you both and I've added you both as contacts on Flickr so that I can keep up with your images.
~ jamjaragain
Now that I have considered this I would like to enter the debate. The first thing I have to say is that I sympathise with Blip central. It must be extremely difficult to keep everyone happy and there are a lot of issues here. Mistakes are inevitable.
It seems there is a massive response not wanting you both to leave the site and I would emphatically add myself to that. I have to confess I?m not the biggest fan of the Imp/Duck style of photographs. I tend not to like people cut in two, or bits of things. I also don't like the main subject walking out of the picture. Walking into it isn?t as bad. Also the squinty angles don't always work for me as I don't look at things that way and I also spend a lot of time straightening up horizons etc. Having said all that you are correct to continue with your own style and I am amazed how often it works. Despite all the general points I have just made a week rarely goes by without one of your images being absolutely outstanding as it all just comes together and works. So I really will miss them not to mention all the supportive comments.
You could change your minds!
~ gblrps
I have an Enhanced Disclosure Scotland certificate allowing me to work with children and vulnerable adults. I have therefore looked into these issues a lot and have my own views. If the person is aware of the picture either before or after the event and given their approval there is obviously no issue. If its a candid where there has been no communication then we need to start asking questions. Are they identifiable from the image? Are they just a part of a scene, or the main subject/focal point? Are they just going about their normal daily business? Have they done something unusual where they would be aware they have drawn attention to themselves? Are they deliberately setting out to exhibit themselves, for example the Fringe performers? Is it likely that the person would be happy to have the picture taken and posted on a website?
We then need to make a decision based on the answers. There are a number of images on the site that I personally would not have used based on the answers I would be getting to the questions I have just outlined.
That maybe includes some of the Duck/Imp images. But to use the word 'offensive' is preposterous. I think some are bordering on being ill-advised but not offensive and certainly not intentionally offensive.
You raise an interesting point about this one . I absolutely love that one. In this case they have done something which has drawn attention to themselves but most likely it was done inadvertently. Therefore there is a fine line and maybe, just maybe, I am on the wrong side of it for liking it so much.
Can I draw your attention to this one which I know has caused some offense outside the blip community. Not because of the image which is actually very nice. I?m also sure the people in the shot would have no problem being part of it. Even the title is good humoured. But some of the text and comments are blatantly ageist and several of them in bad taste. I wouldn't criticise any of the contributors as they were genuinely trying to inject some humour into their comments but it probably says a lot about society that this unequivocal ageism is acceptable and doesn't have a single objection while an image of a rear view of a young lady generates such controversy.
~ gblrps
@gblrps I really respect the thought and honesty that has gone into this comment. I agree that uncompromising agism does go unchallenged. The blip above that you link to made me laugh as someone (to quote the text) sometimes "pees when she coughs" - something that has occurred as I've got older - I did not feel I was laughing at someone else but rather at myself. Another area of prejudice which is often unchallenged and has seemed to become more acceptable recently is to ridicule or criticise people simply because of their size. I am not thin these days either and am not beyond laughing at jokes about size but an image that picks out two very identifiable people to ridicule that about them makes me uncomfortable.
I must however reiterate that I do not believe that this image should be censored or do I disapprove of the people who may have found it funny. I am very concerned about a society which seems to be increasingly filled with "isms" and which uses them to condemn individuals who often have transgressed against a hidden agenda rather than are guilty of the stated crime. That for me is the only explanation for a rigorous but totally inconsistent censorship policy here on blip.
~ impoftheyard
Folks, there are two or three discussions going on about this - can I refer you to this forum thread? Thanks.
~ Joe
I'm so sorry you feel you have to leave but can kind of understand why! I have really enjoyed looking at your journal and am going to miss you. All the best! XxX
~ foreveryoung
I am sad to see you go to. again i understand why. I dont quite know what to type other than i will miss you, i really like your journal & i wish you all the best, take care & keep on snapping :0)x
~ Shona
Well, well. This was inevitable I fear although not necessarily having you two specifically, leaving. A very sad day indeed.
I've noticed for some time comments becoming more and more acerbic from the same few blippers but it seems to have escalated and whoever it is that runs blipfoto has of yet chosen not to intervene.
I certainly agree that offensive comments and photographs have no place in blipfoto but I most definitely see nothing whatsoever wrong with either of your blips and/or comments. Quite the contrary in fact.
To then remove your final blip from the most viewed page is of course censorship but on what justification I'm at a loss to understand.
I suspect this is the thin edge of the wedge as it were so I shall follow suit and take my blips elsewhere as a matter of principle.
A sad day indeed.
Douglas
~ mcspud1947
Brilliant argument.
I loved your list of photographers.
I am sorry this has happened. Seems totally uncalled for and unjustly puritanical.
My blip today was dedicated to you both. You will be missed.
~ etherghost
Yes, he has spoken but said nothing other than what I expected him
to say! I'm glad sleepyduck had a chat with cagedbird.
~ martrex
I am sorry you are leaving Blip. I have enjoyed viewing your entries everyday. Thank you for all your kind comments on mine.
~ Gillipaw
Sorry to see you both go. It's a strange world.
~ mooncoin
Cant believe all this has happened and now we have lost two wonderful journals, take care and I will keep in touch with you both on Flickr. Thank you for taking the time to comment on my journal.
~ darkeyes2000
Ah blip is losing a great couple.. I like you goodbye blip :) Hope you also will not stop photographing and I guess I'll see you both on flickr! Thanks.
~ stephanie
I agree with mostly everybody. But especially with Annie. I´m sad to see you both go, as I fell that Blip will be poorer after this most unfortunate incident. The community of blippers is just so great, extremely friendly and supportive in my view. It´s the so called moderators that hover in the back ground making over zealous decisions that contaminate the whole thing. I hope you get your enthusiasm for photography back soon, forget this whole thing and be happy. I wish you all the best.
~ minerva
Cheerio Imp. Hopefully you'll be able to come back some day. See you on Flickr.
~ 42
I would like to add Flick to the list of photographers.
I will miss you Imp.
I would like to believe that apparently final decisions are not final.
I have been here for over 500 days, and when blip became a commercial site, I wasn't all that impressed by the way the Founding Member thing was presented and I was quite certain that the site would become a 2-tier site and lose its original spirit. I was quite vocal and quite upset at the time.
I was wrong, the site did not change.
Quite a number of people I respect a lot left around that time. I still miss them. And I think that now that the passionate debate has run its course, a few months later they miss not being part of this community (if I am wrong, please please rejoin and prove me wrong :)
What I can assure you of is that past blippers of yours and SD's caliber may be gone, they surely are not forgotten!
If a come back is really an e-mail away, I would strongly encourage you to consider it calmly, once all the upheaval of the last few days as subsided.
Take great care of yourself and Sleepy Duck.
~ raheny_eye
Ah so sorry this had happened. Reportage is a recognised form of photography, how could it not be ok? By leaving you are giving in to this though but I know how much it will have cost you to defend yourselves. How totally stupid the whole thing is.
~ annekingston
Yes, how totally stupid, as said by annekingston!
I will miss you and SD - you have always been such inspiration. Thanks, Imp.
~ beautifulblue
I have not been on blip for a few weeks - so did not catch any of this debate till today. I am so sorry to hear you are leaving blip - as I said in my message to sleepyduck, you two were the first to comment on my pics when I joined blip, and your kind words and encouragement made me feel welcomed and valued as part of the community - thank you. I believe that you two represent the type of blipper that makes this community what it is (when it is at its best) - supportive, warm, good humoured. What a shame this fuss has blown up. I have thoroughly enjoyed not only your excellent photos, but also following your journals, and I will really miss you both. Nothing that either of you have posted has ever offended me in the slightest. I will try to keep up with you via flikr!
I wish you both all the best :)
Hellcat xxx
~ hellcat2009
I was thinking I hadn't seen you for a while and you've been travelling away or something. Just found out what was going on...
I often take photos of others random so this gives me lots of thoughts too. I miss your blip as you were like a symbol of Blip and it seemed like you were living here. Thank you so much for all your kind comments and I'm looking forward to your photos coming on flikr.
~ mychair
Aww! Bye-bye Imp! Sad to see you both go. Your journals were fantastic. May you and your camera have a wonderful time. :)
~ remis95
You haven't been invited to comment on this journal. Why not start your own journal and join the community? It's free, only takes a minute and you'll be able to comment on everyone's journals. Click here to get started.